I avoid confrontation like the plague but never back down from bullies and having done my research into Jesse Brown's background beforehand you had every right and reason to come out swinging against this thuggish fraud of a journalist.
That was a tough listen. You were right to drop the polite façade. This man doesn't deserve it. What an embarrassment. Hard to believe he will post that, edited or not.
(32:58 in) Jesse claims that a total of 16 sites in summer 2021 "had communities saying.. ok, we've confirmed this through ground penetrating radar"
Terry "which communities?"
Jesse can't name any…
(42:00 in) Terry "we don't teach this stuff in schools"
Schools have gotten much better about this than Terry may realize - every child I know knows about residential schools.
(51:00 in) At this point Jesse's argument is clear when he says that Terry "gave them a gift."
Here, Jesse is maintaining that journalists cannot report facts if the facts don't support an ideological position because ideological enemies can then weaponise these facts.
This authoritarian position is based in the Bolshevik style "ends justify the means." Jesse expects journalists to lie (or be silent) because the end result of a false narrative will lead to ideological victory.
Finally:
One of Terry's main points in all of this is that journalism has been eviscerated…
(1:00 in) Jesse finally admits that the "The year of the graves" actually isn't before him. He seems to have been using paraphrased snippets.
Good God Terry, having listened to this interview again for sake of clarity on what you actually wrote and intended to convey in Year Of The Graves specifically, for the life of me I don't know how you managed to keep your composure as well as you did and not physically launch yourself at this self-styled know-all hack journalist come grand inquisitor of the truth and reconciliation process. I wouldn't have been quite so cordial with this rat bastard fabulist as you were for sure. That said, chin up! cheerio! carry on!
Thanks Dale. I remain of two minds. It was good I did this; it wasn't, because I'm only giving him a platform. I should have kept cool; I gave him the thrashing he deserved. It's heartening to notice that people who disagree about whether I made the right decision have had perfectly respectful disagreements, good points on both sides. I'm still unsure, in all honesty, but I will admit, when I listen to the interview, I am, more often than not, amused. Taking at least some pleasure in the discomfit and embarassment of one's enemies is no vice.
Jesse Brown's revisionist narratives about Canada are getting so toxic, and he's received so little pushback, that I applaud your efforts to get this on the record. At least something critical of the guy appears when there is a google search!
This was both instructive and entertaining. I am a retired newspaperman from the days when they could afford grizzled editors who asked, "Who said this?" "How do you know this is true?" etc.
I don't believe last summer's hysterical reportage would have been published in my day.
Just started listening. I'm glad that Terry insisted on his "right of reply" to Jesse's previous libel (July 2021), rather than allowing Jesse to frame the conversation in his own false way.
Also, I can't find: "the media and government chose to unleash waves of violence" which Jesse claims is a phrase in Terry's recent writing.
There are references to "waves" in this substack, but it's things like:
"That’s how Prime Minister Justin Trudeau described the wave of arsons and window-smashings last summer"
Chiming in belatedly, that edited version motivated me to get an annual subscription to your substack. Having just listed to the Bari Weiss podcast, I was fuming on your behalf. Jesse did everything except ask you how often you beat your wife.
Phooey. Self regulation is NOT a virtue in the face of nasty distortion and idiocy.
Brown shows up without even a basic grip on the mass grave story details as they unfolded last year. He came to smear. He thought he had a gotcha lined up ‘cause he talked to Terry’s estranged cousin. Ooooo scary. Getting Terry to speak with him was THE highbrow moment of this dork’s career
Tough to listen to this was. Jesse Brown's interview style, at least for those he disagrees with, is to throw the most inflammatory allegations at the interviewee and hope for a reaction. I don't know if he expected the reaction he got from you Terry, so well done.
I used to subscribe to Canadaland, back in the early days of its existence when Brown actually attempted some media criticism. I cancelled my sub when he started bringing on guest interviewers and panelists who clearly hated (and would use that exact word) anyone whose ideology didn't align precisely with theirs.
This I'm afraid is typical of so much Canadian media today. Your identity trumps everything. If you aren't part of the tribe you are the enemy. So in the Canadaland mind a journalist like Terry is automatically excluded from commenting on indigenous issues, and beyond that is considered a racist for even deigning to comment. However, any indigenous person can freely comment on any indigenous issue and this will be considered sacrosanct, not to be questioned, unless what they are saying goes against the accepted narrative, in which case they will be dismissed as 'white-adjacent' and will be excluded from the group.
It makes for a sorry state of affairs and no wonder so much of media is dying on the vine. Please keep speaking up Terry, in all forums. I do believe that this current fever will pass at some point.
Right from the get go Jesse was acting like a jerk. I mean the opening line "who you are and what you do?" It was Jesse who invited him on the show, Jesse should be introducing Terry. It's a show of respect. But it just goes to show what the next hour was going to be lol.
I have only heard his podcast once before. I remember thinking he did a good job on that one (but can't remember what it was about). Now, I just think he's a jerk. I would have loved to have heard some legit criticisms of Glavin's piece. It would have been interesting to hear Gavin defend himself in the true spirit of debating an issue. But we didn't get that. We got a very immature interviewer interrupting and being belligerent, moving on to making accusations he can only defend by hearsay, and ending with smugness. Not a good look for Brown. He's right, though: Glavin's career will be fine. Brown's might not be.
I avoid confrontation like the plague but never back down from bullies and having done my research into Jesse Brown's background beforehand you had every right and reason to come out swinging against this thuggish fraud of a journalist.
That was a tough listen. You were right to drop the polite façade. This man doesn't deserve it. What an embarrassment. Hard to believe he will post that, edited or not.
Some excerpts:
(32:58 in) Jesse claims that a total of 16 sites in summer 2021 "had communities saying.. ok, we've confirmed this through ground penetrating radar"
Terry "which communities?"
Jesse can't name any…
(42:00 in) Terry "we don't teach this stuff in schools"
Schools have gotten much better about this than Terry may realize - every child I know knows about residential schools.
(51:00 in) At this point Jesse's argument is clear when he says that Terry "gave them a gift."
Here, Jesse is maintaining that journalists cannot report facts if the facts don't support an ideological position because ideological enemies can then weaponise these facts.
This authoritarian position is based in the Bolshevik style "ends justify the means." Jesse expects journalists to lie (or be silent) because the end result of a false narrative will lead to ideological victory.
Finally:
One of Terry's main points in all of this is that journalism has been eviscerated…
(1:00 in) Jesse finally admits that the "The year of the graves" actually isn't before him. He seems to have been using paraphrased snippets.
We had to laugh!
Have long known how sleazy Brown can be. Taken him to task many times.
It's all so tiresome, but you're doing important and necessary work, Terry. We appreicate it.
Good God Terry, having listened to this interview again for sake of clarity on what you actually wrote and intended to convey in Year Of The Graves specifically, for the life of me I don't know how you managed to keep your composure as well as you did and not physically launch yourself at this self-styled know-all hack journalist come grand inquisitor of the truth and reconciliation process. I wouldn't have been quite so cordial with this rat bastard fabulist as you were for sure. That said, chin up! cheerio! carry on!
Thanks Dale. I remain of two minds. It was good I did this; it wasn't, because I'm only giving him a platform. I should have kept cool; I gave him the thrashing he deserved. It's heartening to notice that people who disagree about whether I made the right decision have had perfectly respectful disagreements, good points on both sides. I'm still unsure, in all honesty, but I will admit, when I listen to the interview, I am, more often than not, amused. Taking at least some pleasure in the discomfit and embarassment of one's enemies is no vice.
Jesse Brown's revisionist narratives about Canada are getting so toxic, and he's received so little pushback, that I applaud your efforts to get this on the record. At least something critical of the guy appears when there is a google search!
This was both instructive and entertaining. I am a retired newspaperman from the days when they could afford grizzled editors who asked, "Who said this?" "How do you know this is true?" etc.
I don't believe last summer's hysterical reportage would have been published in my day.
Just started listening. I'm glad that Terry insisted on his "right of reply" to Jesse's previous libel (July 2021), rather than allowing Jesse to frame the conversation in his own false way.
Also, I can't find: "the media and government chose to unleash waves of violence" which Jesse claims is a phrase in Terry's recent writing.
There are references to "waves" in this substack, but it's things like:
"That’s how Prime Minister Justin Trudeau described the wave of arsons and window-smashings last summer"
https://therealstory.substack.com/p/hoo-boy-deep-downtown-crazytown?s=w
"wave of church-burnings"
https://therealstory.substack.com/p/hoo-boy-deep-downtown-crazytown?s=w
I do wish that Terry has his writings to hand and the "CNTRL F" button to easily demonstrate that Jesse is bullshitting from the get-go.
Jesse asked you to come into his echo chamber you were supposed to play along I guess!
I used to be on Canadaland's free email subscription list. I have now unsubscribed.
Wow. I am just 10 minutes in, and I want to punch Jesse Brown.
He tends to provoke that reaction in sane grownups.
Chiming in belatedly, that edited version motivated me to get an annual subscription to your substack. Having just listed to the Bari Weiss podcast, I was fuming on your behalf. Jesse did everything except ask you how often you beat your wife.
Thansk Grace. Warmest regard to ye.
Phooey. Self regulation is NOT a virtue in the face of nasty distortion and idiocy.
Brown shows up without even a basic grip on the mass grave story details as they unfolded last year. He came to smear. He thought he had a gotcha lined up ‘cause he talked to Terry’s estranged cousin. Ooooo scary. Getting Terry to speak with him was THE highbrow moment of this dork’s career
Not just indigenous churches were burned.
Of course. But I do have a highly tuned ear for tragic ironies.
But Terry, they are just "inanimate objects."
Tough to listen to this was. Jesse Brown's interview style, at least for those he disagrees with, is to throw the most inflammatory allegations at the interviewee and hope for a reaction. I don't know if he expected the reaction he got from you Terry, so well done.
I used to subscribe to Canadaland, back in the early days of its existence when Brown actually attempted some media criticism. I cancelled my sub when he started bringing on guest interviewers and panelists who clearly hated (and would use that exact word) anyone whose ideology didn't align precisely with theirs.
This I'm afraid is typical of so much Canadian media today. Your identity trumps everything. If you aren't part of the tribe you are the enemy. So in the Canadaland mind a journalist like Terry is automatically excluded from commenting on indigenous issues, and beyond that is considered a racist for even deigning to comment. However, any indigenous person can freely comment on any indigenous issue and this will be considered sacrosanct, not to be questioned, unless what they are saying goes against the accepted narrative, in which case they will be dismissed as 'white-adjacent' and will be excluded from the group.
It makes for a sorry state of affairs and no wonder so much of media is dying on the vine. Please keep speaking up Terry, in all forums. I do believe that this current fever will pass at some point.
Your article is great but you behaved so badly here you made Jesse Brown look good.
Right from the get go Jesse was acting like a jerk. I mean the opening line "who you are and what you do?" It was Jesse who invited him on the show, Jesse should be introducing Terry. It's a show of respect. But it just goes to show what the next hour was going to be lol.
Jesse didn't start off in the best of ways. He was putting words in his mouth right from the start.
Absolutely! But we expected poor conduct from Jesse.
I have only heard his podcast once before. I remember thinking he did a good job on that one (but can't remember what it was about). Now, I just think he's a jerk. I would have loved to have heard some legit criticisms of Glavin's piece. It would have been interesting to hear Gavin defend himself in the true spirit of debating an issue. But we didn't get that. We got a very immature interviewer interrupting and being belligerent, moving on to making accusations he can only defend by hearsay, and ending with smugness. Not a good look for Brown. He's right, though: Glavin's career will be fine. Brown's might not be.