Here we are in the 21st century and a defunct papal bull from 1493, repudiated centuries ago, is front-page news again. Why are we even having this conversation?
How is it that you are one of the few Canadians who can and does research to explain to the general public all these inconsistencies in political rhetoric? Thank you for doing so.
I really don't see what Catholic Church doctrine and proclamations have to do with our legal or constitutional systems in Canada.
Canada has not been a Catholic country since the British conquest at the end of the eighteenth century. Indeed, in the early days, it was an anti-Catholic country (or group of colonies). Reading through royal proclamations and landmark decisions of the Canadian Supreme Court on aboriginal rights and land title (indigenous was not yet the fashionable term), as I had to do in law school, I do not remember any trace of religious doctrine.
This too is invented to serve today's purposes, i.e. to shame and blame various groups in our society.
Thank you, Terry, for being on a very short list of journalists who provide facts versus emotional or political say-nothing jibber-jabber. It is greatly appreciated, especially on this topic.
Pope Francis does not use the term "Vicar Of Christ" for some reason. Interesting lesson in history for me. I thought that Trudeau would pull a stunt like this. I hope that Canadians new and old will not let the government away with this never ending saga of large promise and abysmal performance. Surely, if he thinks that he can solve climate change, why not mercury free water?
The status quo on many reserves is death and disease. Thank you Terry for trying to reorient the conversation to policy that would help children in 2022. Not the fucking 1500s! Jesus Christ!
Jul 28, 2022·edited Jul 28, 2022Liked by Terry Glavin
It doesn't hurt for the Catholic Church to explicitly repudiate an old racially supremacist belief and practice.
I'm not certain that 'doctrine of discovery' lies under the Crown's claim to radical possession. The Crown had already, as Ellen Mieskons Wood (in her book Origins of Capitalism) pointed out long ago, tested their ideas in the English colonialization of Ireland. It's not really about empty land or first discovery, it's really a very staid theory from British philosophy - that ownership fell to those who invested labour in the land. The Irish modification was to say you had to invest labour in order to receive profits at the commercial rate (thus allowing the displacement of underproductive Irish peasants).
There are a growing set of legal decision that actually call into question the Crowns claim of radical possession and it is more likely we are moving to a legal context of shred sovereignty as is occurring in New Zealand.
Well done Terry. Clear and well written. The Trudeau Libs don’t do many things well, but they are masters of spin and opportunity. With some help from our fine CBC of course.
Will we ever come back up the ever deepening rabbit hole of indigenous issues to deal with the light of day and all get on with making things work to best possible effect for all? Canada seems self absorbed in a belly button staring competition, unable or unwilling to leave the field.
I would attribute blame to successive generations of Canadian politicians, recognizing that progress has been made (e.g., Harper's apology and creation of the TRC, and some of the concrete measures of the Trudeau government - not the virtue signalling). Also recognize while the symbolic matters for some, the real work lies in addressing longstanding issues and realities.
I came looking to see if you say anything about the Pope and his statement about genocide. Also to share a ridiculous article I just read. "Pope Francis calls mass killing of indigenous Canadian schoolchildren 'genocide' ...Pope Francis referred to the massacre of indigenous schoolchildren as a "genocide" during a press conference, the first time he has used the word to describe the killings in his trip to Canada." HS! https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/pope-francis-mass-killing-indigenous-school-children-canada-genocide?_amp=true
Thank you, Terry Glavin, for your insight into conversations that some of us take for granted. I will say, though, that while the Doctrine of Discovery may well be ancient, it is not defunct in Canadian or International Law. Many churches, some post TRC, have taken it upon themselves to denounce the Doctrine, as have individual "Catholic entities". See Indigenous Values Initiative, "Repudiations by Faith Communities," Doctrine of Discovery Project (30 July 2018), https://doctrineofdiscovery.org/faith-communities/
There certainly have been statements from the Vatican since the 60s denouncing colonization of Indigenous peoples without repudiating the Doctrine of Discovery. As a non-Christian, I try to understand why the TRC added this as a Call to Action, and see in Indigenous communities a range of responses to the Papal visit, the apology, its limitations, its usefulness. After your story, I finally do further research into how these "ancient" legal proclamations still affect Canadian-Indigenous relations today (a long read about history of Canadian legal cases). Jennifer Reid, "The Doctrine of Discover and Canadian Law" https://caid.ca/CanDocDis2010.pdf. As it is in Australia especially, and New Zealand, versions of the Doctrine can still be seen to work in law and in the imagination. Maybe for many of us it isn't relevant that the Pope repudiate an ancient papal bull, but perhaps we ourselves might consider it and notice when it makes its reappearances.
How is it that you are one of the few Canadians who can and does research to explain to the general public all these inconsistencies in political rhetoric? Thank you for doing so.
I really don't see what Catholic Church doctrine and proclamations have to do with our legal or constitutional systems in Canada.
Canada has not been a Catholic country since the British conquest at the end of the eighteenth century. Indeed, in the early days, it was an anti-Catholic country (or group of colonies). Reading through royal proclamations and landmark decisions of the Canadian Supreme Court on aboriginal rights and land title (indigenous was not yet the fashionable term), as I had to do in law school, I do not remember any trace of religious doctrine.
This too is invented to serve today's purposes, i.e. to shame and blame various groups in our society.
Thank you, Terry, for being on a very short list of journalists who provide facts versus emotional or political say-nothing jibber-jabber. It is greatly appreciated, especially on this topic.
Pope Francis does not use the term "Vicar Of Christ" for some reason. Interesting lesson in history for me. I thought that Trudeau would pull a stunt like this. I hope that Canadians new and old will not let the government away with this never ending saga of large promise and abysmal performance. Surely, if he thinks that he can solve climate change, why not mercury free water?
The status quo on many reserves is death and disease. Thank you Terry for trying to reorient the conversation to policy that would help children in 2022. Not the fucking 1500s! Jesus Christ!
It doesn't hurt for the Catholic Church to explicitly repudiate an old racially supremacist belief and practice.
I'm not certain that 'doctrine of discovery' lies under the Crown's claim to radical possession. The Crown had already, as Ellen Mieskons Wood (in her book Origins of Capitalism) pointed out long ago, tested their ideas in the English colonialization of Ireland. It's not really about empty land or first discovery, it's really a very staid theory from British philosophy - that ownership fell to those who invested labour in the land. The Irish modification was to say you had to invest labour in order to receive profits at the commercial rate (thus allowing the displacement of underproductive Irish peasants).
There are a growing set of legal decision that actually call into question the Crowns claim of radical possession and it is more likely we are moving to a legal context of shred sovereignty as is occurring in New Zealand.
Another 'Whew' column from the masterful Terry Gavin. Thank you as always.
Thanks for another great post. Sometimes I think I am going mad when I read the general media reporting on this. Stupefyingly wrong.
You are one of the few voices of sanity. Keep going!
Well done Terry. Clear and well written. The Trudeau Libs don’t do many things well, but they are masters of spin and opportunity. With some help from our fine CBC of course.
Cheers sir.
Dave
In his reckless youth I believe the Pope was a follower of liberation theology. Not the type to support the 1493 Papal Bull.
Will we ever come back up the ever deepening rabbit hole of indigenous issues to deal with the light of day and all get on with making things work to best possible effect for all? Canada seems self absorbed in a belly button staring competition, unable or unwilling to leave the field.
I would attribute blame to successive generations of Canadian politicians, recognizing that progress has been made (e.g., Harper's apology and creation of the TRC, and some of the concrete measures of the Trudeau government - not the virtue signalling). Also recognize while the symbolic matters for some, the real work lies in addressing longstanding issues and realities.
To get a Pass in History back in the 60’s was to know the 3 C’s …Cook, Cabot and Champlain.
Thanks for the intriguing history lesson.. Time to dig a little deeper into our past..
I came looking to see if you say anything about the Pope and his statement about genocide. Also to share a ridiculous article I just read. "Pope Francis calls mass killing of indigenous Canadian schoolchildren 'genocide' ...Pope Francis referred to the massacre of indigenous schoolchildren as a "genocide" during a press conference, the first time he has used the word to describe the killings in his trip to Canada." HS! https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/pope-francis-mass-killing-indigenous-school-children-canada-genocide?_amp=true
why cant the MSM report these facts,
too lazy, too stupid, too biased, all three?
Thank you, Terry Glavin, for your insight into conversations that some of us take for granted. I will say, though, that while the Doctrine of Discovery may well be ancient, it is not defunct in Canadian or International Law. Many churches, some post TRC, have taken it upon themselves to denounce the Doctrine, as have individual "Catholic entities". See Indigenous Values Initiative, "Repudiations by Faith Communities," Doctrine of Discovery Project (30 July 2018), https://doctrineofdiscovery.org/faith-communities/
There certainly have been statements from the Vatican since the 60s denouncing colonization of Indigenous peoples without repudiating the Doctrine of Discovery. As a non-Christian, I try to understand why the TRC added this as a Call to Action, and see in Indigenous communities a range of responses to the Papal visit, the apology, its limitations, its usefulness. After your story, I finally do further research into how these "ancient" legal proclamations still affect Canadian-Indigenous relations today (a long read about history of Canadian legal cases). Jennifer Reid, "The Doctrine of Discover and Canadian Law" https://caid.ca/CanDocDis2010.pdf. As it is in Australia especially, and New Zealand, versions of the Doctrine can still be seen to work in law and in the imagination. Maybe for many of us it isn't relevant that the Pope repudiate an ancient papal bull, but perhaps we ourselves might consider it and notice when it makes its reappearances.